Update For Finance – Nov 2023 – Online Intergroup of Alcoholics Anonymous

Minutes for Finance Meeting - 11 Nov 2023

OIAA Finance Committee 

Record of Minutes

Saturday, November 11, 2023

9:00am – 10:24am HDT

11:00am -12:24pm   PDT

2:00pm – 5:24pm EDT


Attendees : 

Jennifer – Acting Treasurer

Felix – Alternate Treasurer

Jeff B – OIAA Secretary

Nona – Serving Vice Chair

Barry – Long Time Member of Finance Committee

Nicky – Acting  Finance Secretary


Jennifer leads Serenity Prayer.  All in Attendance join in.  


Jennifer brings up the Agenda and asks for any additions to the Agenda.  Barry says he would like to discuss the non-profit status concerning Paypal.  Jennifer points to the PayPal Giving Fund on the screen and explains that she has been corresponding with them and has been looking into it.  


Review of Previous Months Meeting Minutes

Susan asks if Jennifer could send Eldin’s internal audit plan.  Jennifer answers that it was an attachment with the last months emails

They continue to review and discuss the Minutes.  They read and edit the Minutes changing the misspellings and helping with typographical errors. 

Susan discusses the usage of the word donations vs contributions.  Jennifer explains that the word is interchangeable especially with the accounting and 501(c)(3) aspect.   In that, as a “donation,” it is deductible on someone’s taxes.  Susan explains that the difference is spiritual.  When someone “contributes” they feel part of the group spiritually.   Jennifer replies that when speaking of tax or audit documents it is a “donation”.  

Barry adds that also when dealing with the donations, we are supposed to be sending out the donation letters for tax purposes.  Jennifer says that they should only send out letters when the donation is over $250 for an individual.  Barry thinks they need to start generating the Donation Letter to send out.  Jennifer agrees and states that they hadn’t sent out 1099s either, but she will be getting them out this year. 

Susan says to Felix that, in her opinion, she thinks  a subcommittee will be best for the internal audit and that any committee can appoint a subcommittee. Jeff agrees that if it’s a subcommittee of a committee, that it doesn’t have to be approved by the board, but by the committee.  

Nona wants to add that there are only so many volunteers that will be qualified to complete an audit and the Finance Committee will have to look at their experience and qualifications.  

Jennifer calls for an Acceptance of the Minutes from the previous meeting.  Susan motions for the Acceptance of the Minutes as Corrected.  Felix Seconds.  Minutes Accepted.
Jennifer calls for Opposition



Review of Financial Statements : 

Jennifer begins with October business  and states there were Revenues of $7,600.00.  

PayPal Fees are associated with Revenues.  Professional Fees are for the accounting system.    Conference Expenses are for Nona and Susan attending the ICOAA.  Jennifer states the accrual will go until the end of the year for the 2025 International Conference.  The Translation Expenses were from the October Forum.  Other Technologies are Google Expenses.  Video Conferencing is for Zoom and $50.00 for a larger room a month.  Website Hosting /Website Management is our special worker, Melinda, who is doing tech support.  Net income of $2,495.00 for October.  

Jennifer asks for any questions 

Barry asks if they pay for a Slack subscription.

Jennifer answers that she asked about that and it was decided Slack wasn’t needed anymore so tech canceled it.  Barry agrees.  



Review of the Balance Sheet

Jennifer moves onto the Balance Sheet

$96,000.00 in the bank.  Accrued expenses are exclusively for the 2025 International AA Convention.  

$5200.00 accrued for 2025 International AA Convention.  

Less than $91,000.00 in unearmarked cash.  

Jennifer asks if anyone has any questions about the Balance Sheet and states that it is pretty straight forward.  



Review of the Contributions Sheet

Jennifer  goes over the Contributions Sheet.  She summarizes that 82 groups and individuals contributed for October 2023.  She points to the old PayPal Account with $1,000.00 in it saying it is the only new thing to note.  

Jennifer asks for any questions on contributions. 

Barry asks if they were able to figure out who was voicing the concerns about the OIAA receiving their group’s donations.  Jennifer says that she has been addressing the concerns and the group’s treasurer said that he was making contributions since April.  He says he sent in the checks and we haven’t received them.   Jennifer states that she will send another email to the IGR and him if she still does not receive it within 10 days.  

Jennifer states she has answered lots of inquiries and helped different groups, but it’s really within their groups to look to.  She believes they should ask themselves whether or not the treasurer has financial integrity.  When getting inquiries, if it does not show as received, the best we can do is show the groups what we DO have. 


Barry states that we can’t do anything with stuff that we don’t receive.  Barry adds that yesterday he received another check from the old address and will forward out today.  

Barry brings up that there are still people that still operate on a recurring  basis and if they do go forward with the PayPal giving approach, they actually give you a receipt.   



Review of Internal Audit Agenda

Jennifer brings up the next issue of the Internal Audit.  She says she has nothing to report and she was hoping that Eldin would have come to this meeting as he is the one with any and all of the information  concerning this audit.  Last Jennifer heard, he was in discussions with Leslie and Erica.  

Jennifer asks if anyone has anything to discuss concerning the audit.  

Nona replies that they should just leave it as is and that they should just be transparent.  They conclude that they are still looking for qualified volunteers.

Concludes : Continued for Eldin Report and Looking for Qualified Volunteers



Review of The PayPal Giving Fund

Jennifer starts off by stating that she changed the entity with PayPal. She changed it from Business to non-profit.  She says this is still currently in the process.  The difference is that the OIAA now pays 2.89% and it will drop to 1.99% if sent directly to OIAA.  She says the PayPal Giving Fund will drop it down to 0% and will pay out once a month.   They accumulate all the donations throughout the month and they give you a list of all the persons who donated. She speculates that we could then put the individuals  into the accounting individually. She also explains that it opens up the Venmo area to take donations and we could easily also now take that form of payment.  From experience with her homegroup. Jennifer also adds that by signing up, there is a lot of personal information that is required.  She finishes by saying that there are no fees associated with the PayPal Giving Fund and pays out once a month after the first month or 45 days.  

Nona states that when given the link for review, she went through the process and scrolled past many charities which would then seem to be affiliated with OIAA. She expresses concern for people trying to search for OIAA , as they might misdonate.  

Susan wants to give some negative feedback on the PayPal Giving Fund.  From her research, the IRS uses PayPal technologies and financial support to fundraise and not charge donors or the charities.  Susan wants to emphasize that AA does not have donors, or is a charity.  She says that we have groups and members that contribute, not donors. She concludes that aligning with a charity is a breach of Tradition Six.  

Barry would like to add to Susan’s point by saying that it would allow outside contributions also. Barry would like to see the donate button go straight to OIAA and not somewhere else first.   

Jennifer replies that they have the website up now and people that know about it would be AA members.  She says they have gotten questionable contributions before where they then reach out to the company or individual and have even refunded them.  She also adds that being involved with PayPal leaves that open as well and doesn’t see the difference.  We would just now be using another program.  

Nona struggles with the nonprofit stipulations as they ARE Non Profit, but also not being affiliated with what comes with it on paper. She explains that they are a nonprofit, but not a charity.  

Jennifer reiterates that, to get nonprofit status with PayPal, leaves it open to allowing outside, third party entities to manage the payments the same way a bank does with a check.  If they sign up for 

PayPal Giving Fund  program, she doesn’t see the difference from having to use a  normal PayPal.  But, at the same time, they could go back to just paying the fees as they are self supporting. Also, along these same lines, going with the non-profit/Giving Fund would go against the traditions.  

Susan replies that the major difference is the Spiritual aspect of it.  If they take charity from somebody, they have to take it from Anybody.  

Jennifer continues that with PayPal it appears that if you are not in the Giving Fund, that you cannot get the non-profit rates on the website.  So they would go back to the business amount and get charged regular transactional fees.  Not nonprofit rates.  

Barry gives an example of him giving a contribution every year to GSO and he gets the letter back from them.  If he gives money to PayPal charity fund, then perhaps he’s not going to get a letter back from the entity wanted.  He argues that there is no way that other entities would have given in to being a part of the Giving Fund and opted out of being labeled a non-profit. 

Jennifer explains that she has been going through the process with PayPal  and it seems that to get non profit status, it has to be established through the Giving Fund.  So, the way she sees it,  there is no way to not go through the Giving Fund completely.  So she states that either they go through the process of getting non-profit status through the Giving Fund, or they have to stay where they are as a business and pay  the business rates.  

Nona wants to explain that she understands what PayPal is trying to do, but sees through the actual charitable program they are running. She believes they  are wanting to appear to be civic minded, but whilst still using other  entities to do it. She sees they are using the money to fund their own funds.  She does not believe in this way of doing business even though it is the cost of business.  

Barry agrees and wishes he could protest this option as to make it available for others when they can’t do it for themselves.  Barry’s spirit would be protesting this, no matter how long it took, just on principle.  

Susan also adds three times that she cannot support this.  It goes against the Traditions. 
Jennifer states that the Traditions trumps anything always.  Group conscious rules always.  

She is worried that they can’t stop the process they took towards getting non-profit status with PayPal.  

Barry replies that they have to get our explicit permissions before finalizing.  

Jennifer states that she provided  the determination letter from the IRS required for the non-profit status.  

Nona says not to worry and we just do the best we can and just like in life, we just deal with what is in front of us. 

Consensus is Opposition to the PayPal Giving Fund.  

Jennifer calls for any opposition to the Opposition to PayPal Giving  Fund.  




Motion to Close Meeting.  


Jennifer Closes with Responsibility Statement

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